Lamictal or Topamax?
Question:
i have great results with topamax……colleen
Response:
Hear, Hear, Hoosier1! Well said. Speaking as one who was advised to stop the drug due to rash, I must say Thank you! Sara
<snipped> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One should ALWAYS take adverse events seriously. It is better to err on > the side of caution than risk your life. Not taking adverse events > seriously can be like playing Russian Roulette with your life. > That’s YOUR experience and probably many others. However, minimizing > adverse effects can be dangerous advice, as I mentioned above. One does not > have to be fearful of adverse effects, but should have a healthy respect for > and wary eye out for them–its just common sense. > Hoosier1
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what is the percentage of bipolar people that blow their heads off with a gun??? greater than one percent?? your more likely to develop the rash than be struck by lightening, but for some one who has had minimal success with other mood stabilizers the <1% chance seems rather minimal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The chance of a serious and life-threatening rash is > 0.3%–according to clinical trials. As I have said > before in previous posts: You have more of a chance of > getting hit by lightening than getting a Lamictal serious > rash. > I appreciate your enthusiasm about Lamactil, but this is misleading and > possibly dangerous information. The incidence of rash in clinical trials > associated with hospitalization was 0.3% in adults and 1.0% in children. > The incidence is even higher for persons concurrently taking Valproic Acid. > The incidence of Stevens-Johnson syndrome (a severe rash which can cause > blindness or death) in clinical trials was 0.1% in adults and 0.5% in > children. This would be analagous to at least 250,000 persons in the U.S. > having been hit by lightning-hardly an accurate figure. The actual incidence > of serious rash is probably less, because these figures are from clinical > trials instead of clinical practice, but the incidence is certainly much > higher than the chance of being hit by lightning. Another reason one > cannot say that it is the same as "getting hit by lightning", is also > because it is unknown how many patients with mild or moderate rashes in > clinical practice would have developed a more serious rash like > Stevens-Johnson syndrome if they had continued taking the drug. > There is a chance of a non-serious rash, estimated at 3%. > This rash usually comes on with concurrent use of other > Anti-Epileptic Drugs like Depakote. > Carbamazebine (Tegretol) has an incidence of rash that is slightly lower > than that of Lamactil. Valproic Acid (Depakote is a type of this) has a > incidence of rash significantly lower than that of Lamactil. It is > important to distinguish these incidences. > I don’t know what to > say for persons who fear 3%. If a person fears that, he > cannot take hundreds of other drugs on the market that have > an even higher chance of adverse events. > One should ALWAYS take adverse events seriously. It is better to err on > the side of caution than risk your life. Not taking adverse events > seriously can be like playing Russian Roulette with your life. > I am on a ONE-MAN CRUSADE to end fears about Lamictal. > Lamictal has done wonders in my life, and I believe it to be > the drug with the fewest side-effects of all time. > That’s YOUR experience and probably many others. However, minimizing > adverse effects can be dangerous advice, as I mentioned above. One does not > have to be fearful of adverse effects, but should have a healthy respect for > and wary eye out for them–its just common sense. > Hoosier1
– if consequences dictate my course of action…i should play god and just shoot you myself -mjk
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I’m doing this for the benefit of this newsgroup: Man, you’re still scaring people with that 3%. More people get seizures from Wellbutrin than that. But people somehow aren’t scared of Wellbutrin like they are of Lamictal. Now here is the truth. Most bipolars have the choice of the benign Lamictal OR: Lithium (drowsiness), Depakote (Weight Gain), Tegretol (Mucho weight gain), Neurontin (dizziness), or Topamax (stupidness, drowsiness). Or if you don’t wanna try Lamictal you can always try an MAOI (dietary restrictions and a chance of hypertensive crisis & death)! May I pose a question: Would you, a reasonable, intelligent human being, take Lamictal or not–knowing about the side-effects? * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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> what is the percentage of bipolar people that blow their heads off with a > gun??? > greater than one percent?? > your more likely to develop the rash than be struck by lightening, but for > some one who has had minimal success with other mood stabilizers the <1% > chance seems rather minimal
I didn’t say don’t take the drug, which you’re assuming I did. I said be careful of the rash, which can lead to Stevens-Johnson syndrome, which can lead to blindness or death. If you go blind, it makes it much less possible that you can obtain a gun to blow your head off. Think about it. Hoosier1
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> I’m doing this for the benefit of this newsgroup: > Man, you’re still scaring people with that 3%. More people > get seizures from Wellbutrin than that. But people somehow > aren’t scared of Wellbutrin like they are of Lamictal.
No I’m not scaring people. I’m being honest and objective. You are misleading people. You have an extreme bias toward this drug, thinking it’s somehow the best thing since sliced bread. I think it is a very good drug (yes, I take it, too), but saying that the incidence of rash is the same as being hit by lightning is simply not true, misleading, and potentially dangerous. The vast majority of seizures are not fatal or disfiguring; a majority of severe rashes can be. > Now here is the truth. Most bipolars have the choice of the > benign Lamictal OR: Lithium (drowsiness), Depakote > (Weight Gain), Tegretol (Mucho weight gain), Neurontin > (dizziness), or Topamax (stupidness, drowsiness). Or if you > don’t wanna try Lamictal you can always try an MAOI (dietary > restrictions and a chance of hypertensive crisis & death)!
Benign Lamactil? In the vast majority of cases, I would agree. But it’s not benign for people who develop a serious rash, which is a significant minority of people. Lithium has many side effects, but it’s life-threatening effects are less than that of Lamactil (provided you monitor your blood levels). That’s clinically documented. And drowsiness is almost never fatal. Depakote does not universally cause weight gain. Ditto with Tegretol. Weight gain does pose a health risk, but not as imminent a risk as a severe rash or Stevens-Johnson syndrome. Decline in cognitive functioning with Topomax is not desirable, but not life-threatening. And there have been very few deaths reported with MAOI’s due to hypertensive crisis. (And yes I take one of these, too. From personal experience, the risk of hypertensive crisis is exaggerated.) > May I pose a question: Would you, a reasonable, intelligent > human being, take Lamictal or not–knowing about the > side-effects?
Of course most people would: It was approved by the FDA. As I said before, I take it. However, that’s no reason to mislead people by making false statements about the incidence of rash being the same as as being hit by lightning, or stating that non-life threatening side effects are more serious than life threatening ones, the logic of which completely escapes me. And by the way, I got the rash and didn’t stop the drug. I had a mild rash for two days, and it went away. I reported it to the doctor after the rash disappeared. Anyone reading this: DON’T do what I did. Report the rash right away. Nardil has worked for me better than any other drug by far, and I think it’s underused. But I realize that its interactions with other drugs can be dangerous, I have a healthy respect for this danger. Anyone who doesn’t have a healthy respect for a drug’s adverse effects shouldn’t be on it. Retrospectively, I probably should have had more respect for the serious potential consequences of the Lamactil rash, but fortunately, I got through it. If it comes back, again, however, I will report it immediately. Hoosier1
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> Now here is the truth. Most bipolars have the choice of the > benign Lamictal OR: Lithium (drowsiness), Depakote > (Weight Gain), Tegretol (Mucho weight gain), Neurontin > (dizziness), or Topamax (stupidness, drowsiness). Or if you > don’t wanna try Lamictal you can always try an MAOI (dietary > restrictions and a chance of hypertensive crisis & death)!
I forgot to mention: Neurontin has a very low incidence of side effects (the drowsiness, as I said before, may be a pain in the butt, but it’s not serious). In fact, it’s one of the safest drugs on the market, by far. Hoosier1
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at mad scientist .com?
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This is fun, ain’t it? 5% of patients in clinical trials got a rash from just a placebo. That’s more than those who get rashes off Lamictal… Your rash could definitely be because of some other reason. Lamictal will one day escape the stigma of being a "rash" drug. Since its relatively new, people are scared of it. People don’t like new things to put in their body. But ultimately, people will realize that the alternative to Lamictal is years of looking for some other drug that works as well. You take an MAOI like Nardil, and you are afraid of taking Lamictal? My father, a physician, says that MAOIs are the most dangerous drugs on the market. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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> This is fun, ain’t it? > 5% of patients in clinical trials got a rash from > just a placebo. That’s more than those who get rashes off > Lamictal…
There you go again, this time posting a blatant lie. The incidence of rash in that study for people taking Lamactil was 10% vs. 5% for placebo. >Your rash could definitely be because of some > other reason.
Possibly, but hardly. > Lamictal will one day escape the stigma of being a "rash" > drug. Since its relatively new, people are scared of it. > People don’t like new things to put in their body. But > ultimately, people will realize that the alternative to > Lamictal is years of looking for some other drug that works > as well.
I personally think that Lamactil will someday be the most prescribed drug for bipolar disorder because of it’s advantages. But I don’t view it as God’s gift to people with bipolar, like you do. I don’t view Nardil or any drug as God’s gift, either. > You take an MAOI like Nardil, and you are afraid of taking > Lamictal?
No. And where did I say that? ANSWER ME. Where did I say I was afraid of taking Lamactil? I take it, for God’s sake. You are not only posting lies, you are twisting words. > My father, a physician, says that MAOIs are the > most dangerous drugs on the market.
Your father obviously has never seen or treated someone who MAOI’s work for when nothing else does. If HE had bipolar depression or major depression, and MAOI’s were the only thing that worked for him (or you, for that matter), he would probably think otherwise. MAOI’s are very safe if you follow the dietary and medicine restriction, which isn’t difficult to do. The problem with MAOI’s is there interactions with a wide variety of medications, not their effects by themselves. BTW, I didn’t cry over not being able to eat liver. Non-steroidal antiinflammatory drugs and certain other classes of drugs. have much more serious side effects when taken by themselves than Nardil has taken by itself. Ask your father. Hoosier1 > * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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Lamictal has been around for 6 years now. If it was all that dangerous, they would have taken it off the market. A lot of people have what Psychologists call "psychosomatic" illness. They hear that there is a possibility of rash, so they instantly believe that any little mark on themselves is a rash. This is just like when I was improperly diagnosed as bipolar. I really began to believe that I had mania, and other people erroneously accused me of being in a manic state just because I told them I was bipolar. Also, another reason I believed it was because anti-manic/depressive drugs worked for me. The truth was that I had unipolar depression. MAOIs are not prescribed as a first-line or even second-line treatment (one will never be able to challenge that statement) because they truly are dangerous and one cannot take many medicines with them. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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>MAOIs are not prescribed as a first-line or even second-line >treatment (one will never be able to challenge that >statement) because they truly are dangerous and one cannot >take many medicines with them.
More nonsense. MAOIs were the treatment of choice for bipolar depression before the advent of SSRIs. After bupropion, venlafaxine, and SSRIs, MAOIs are solid second-line choices. I know some docs who use MAOIs *first* before any other AD, especially in melancholic bipolar depression. What decade are you living in? MAOIs are as safe as any other AD. I’ve taken Marplan, Nardil, Deprenyl, and high-dose Parnate (150 mg/d) with no problem or sequelae.
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>You are as a mote of dust. You trouble me not.
The lord has spoken jim o
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>>MAOIs are not prescribed as a first-line or even second-line >treatment (one will never be able to challenge that >statement) because they truly are dangerous and one cannot >take many medicines with them. >More nonsense. MAOIs were the treatment of choice for bipolar depression >before the advent of SSRIs. After bupropion, venlafaxine, and SSRIs, MAOIs are >solid second-line choices. I know some docs who use MAOIs *first* before any >other AD, especially in melancholic bipolar depression. What decade are you >living in? MAOIs are as safe as any other AD. I’ve taken Marplan, Nardil, >Deprenyl, and high-dose Parnate (150 mg/d) with no problem or sequelae.
You too jim o
Response:
> Lamictal has been around for 6 years now. If it was all > that dangerous, they would have taken it off the market.
Where exactly did I say it was dangerous? Of course you won’t respond to this because you know you’re wrong. > A lot of people have what Psychologists call "psychosomatic" > illness. They hear that there is a possibility of rash, so > they instantly believe that any little mark on themselves is > a rash.
Well, I guess if the rash is all in people’s mind then people’s hair falling out due to cancer chemotherapy is all in their minds, too. > This is just like when I was improperly diagnosed as > bipolar. I really began to believe that I had mania, and > other people erroneously accused me of being in a manic > state just because I told them I was bipolar. Also, another > reason I believed it was because anti-manic/depressive drugs > worked for me. The truth was that I had unipolar > depression. > MAOIs are not prescribed as a first-line or even second-line > treatment (one will never be able to challenge that > statement)
Hmmm. One of the leading psychopharmacologists, Jack Gorman, M.D., lists MAOI’s as second line drugs for atypical depression and panic disorder. You’re right–nobody would challenge you, they would just laugh in your face. > because they truly are dangerous and one cannot > take many medicines with them.
To use your logic, if they are so dangerous, why haven’t they been taken off the market? (Another question you won’t answer.) One cannot take many medications with a lot of medications on the market. You are lying again. You also didn’t address my statement about NSAIDS. You didn’t answer my previous question about your lie–Here it is again: >5% of patients in clinical trials got a rash from > just a placebo. That’s more than those who get rashes off > Lamictal…
And you didn’t answer another lie: > As I have said > before in previous posts: You have more of a chance of > getting hit by lightening than getting a Lamictal serious > rash.
You post lies, yet you don’t admit that you are posting inaccurate information. Do us all a favor: do some research before you post wrong information. You won’t come across as ignorant as you are now. Hoosier1 > * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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I’m seeing a new Pdoc on Friday and was told by my previous doctor that one of these two mood stabilizers would probably be best for me. The new doctor is very young and although well trained, he has very limited experience working with essentially functioning people. I suspect I will be able to have a lot of input about which drug to try. I don’t want to be made sleepy and I don’t want to be made any fatter than the SSRIs already made me. I also suffer from Irritable Bowel. I wish desperately not to wake up so depressed that I have to force myself to function while I fantasize various suicides. I also desperately with to be less obsessive so that I can focus my attention where I really want it to be and build a better life for myself as a result. I’m afraid the the "fatal rash" of Lamictal although it was my old pdoc’s first choice. Suggestions – experiences? TIA Louise
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The chance of a serious and life-threatening rash is 0.3%–according to clinical trials. As I have said before in previous posts: You have more of a chance of getting hit by lightening than getting a Lamictal serious rash. There is a chance of a non-serious rash, estimated at 3%. This rash usually comes on with concurrent use of other Anti-Epileptic Drugs like Depakote. I don’t know what to say for persons who fear 3%. If a person fears that, he cannot take hundreds of other drugs on the market that have an even higher chance of adverse events. I am on a ONE-MAN CRUSADE to end fears about Lamictal. Lamictal has done wonders in my life, and I believe it to be the drug with the fewest side-effects of all time. –J.T. SalArmy4me * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m seeing a new Pdoc on Friday and was told by my previous doctor that >one of these two mood stabilizers would probably be best for me. >The new doctor is very young and although well trained, he has very >limited experience working with essentially functioning people. I >suspect I will be able to have a lot of input about which drug to try. >I don’t want to be made sleepy and I don’t want to be made any fatter >than the SSRIs already made me. I also suffer from Irritable Bowel. >I wish desperately not to wake up so depressed that I have to force >myself to function while I fantasize various suicides. I also >desperately with to be less obsessive so that I can focus my attention >where I really want it to be and build a better life for myself as a >result. >I’m afraid the the "fatal rash" of Lamictal although it was my old pdoc’s >first choice. >Suggestions – experiences?
Do a deja.com search on lamictal and you can see extensive experiences (mostly positive) of people on here with the drug. 
If it were my choice I’d go with Lamictal because of the mild side effects and the antidepressant effect the drug has. It’s also a good choice if you have migraine headaches. The risk of rash is low, and if you catch it early (and you should be able to since you know to watch for it) it won’t be fatal. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely, Little Girl "Lead paint : Delicious, but deadly."
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lamictal
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I am on Lamictal and I have never encountered the "rash", nor do I feel tired or depressed. Really, I haven’t experienced any side effects from it at all. -judy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m seeing a new Pdoc on Friday and was told by my previous doctor that > one of these two mood stabilizers would probably be best for me. > The new doctor is very young and although well trained, he has very > limited experience working with essentially functioning people. I > suspect I will be able to have a lot of input about which drug to try. > I don’t want to be made sleepy and I don’t want to be made any fatter > than the SSRIs already made me. I also suffer from Irritable Bowel. > I wish desperately not to wake up so depressed that I have to force > myself to function while I fantasize various suicides. I also > desperately with to be less obsessive so that I can focus my attention > where I really want it to be and build a better life for myself as a > result. > I’m afraid the the "fatal rash" of Lamictal although it was my old pdoc’s > first choice. > Suggestions – experiences? > TIA > Louise
Response:
> The chance of a serious and life-threatening rash is > 0.3%–according to clinical trials. As I have said > before in previous posts: You have more of a chance of > getting hit by lightening than getting a Lamictal serious > rash.
I appreciate your enthusiasm about Lamactil, but this is misleading and possibly dangerous information. The incidence of rash in clinical trials associated with hospitalization was 0.3% in adults and 1.0% in children. The incidence is even higher for persons concurrently taking Valproic Acid. The incidence of Stevens-Johnson syndrome (a severe rash which can cause blindness or death) in clinical trials was 0.1% in adults and 0.5% in children. This would be analagous to at least 250,000 persons in the U.S. having been hit by lightning-hardly an accurate figure. The actual incidence of serious rash is probably less, because these figures are from clinical trials instead of clinical practice, but the incidence is certainly much higher than the chance of being hit by lightning. Another reason one cannot say that it is the same as "getting hit by lightning", is also because it is unknown how many patients with mild or moderate rashes in clinical practice would have developed a more serious rash like Stevens-Johnson syndrome if they had continued taking the drug. > There is a chance of a non-serious rash, estimated at 3%. > This rash usually comes on with concurrent use of other > Anti-Epileptic Drugs like Depakote.
Carbamazebine (Tegretol) has an incidence of rash that is slightly lower than that of Lamactil. Valproic Acid (Depakote is a type of this) has a incidence of rash significantly lower than that of Lamactil. It is important to distinguish these incidences. > I don’t know what to > say for persons who fear 3%. If a person fears that, he > cannot take hundreds of other drugs on the market that have > an even higher chance of adverse events.
One should ALWAYS take adverse events seriously. It is better to err on the side of caution than risk your life. Not taking adverse events seriously can be like playing Russian Roulette with your life. > I am on a ONE-MAN CRUSADE to end fears about Lamictal. > Lamictal has done wonders in my life, and I believe it to be > the drug with the fewest side-effects of all time.
That’s YOUR experience and probably many others. However, minimizing adverse effects can be dangerous advice, as I mentioned above. One does not have to be fearful of adverse effects, but should have a healthy respect for and wary eye out for them–its just common sense. Hoosier1
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